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WIZARD Q&A: GREGG HURWITZ TARGETS 'PUNISHER' | The crime novelist talks about all things Frank Castle and what other superheroes he'd like to take to the MAX!
EXCLUSIVE PREVIEW PAGES INSIDE! | | | By Josh Wigler | | Posted 9/03/2008 | |  | | Punisher readers have had their stomachs in knots in recent months, but not because of the gruesome gore-fest seen in the pages of Frank Castle's MAX book—it's because longtime writer Garth Ennis was departing the series like an amputated gangrenous limb. Who could possibly succeed such a fantastically foulmouthed and ferocious wordsmith as Ennis after essentially recreating Frank Castle as a popular character for the mainstream?
Look no further than crime novelist Gregg Hurwitz, who took over Punisher with issue #61. His current arc, "Girls in White Dresses," debuted last month to rave reviews. Not only did Hurwitz prove himself as a solid choice to pick up Ennis' mantle, he also brought the violence, vulgarity and venom that Ennis fans so loved to new poetic heights. If Garth Ennis is the Sean Connery of Punisher writers, then Hurwitz may be the Roger Moore. Yes, it's that good.
We got a chance to chat with Mr. Hurwitz about all things Frank Castle and other comic heroes he'd be interested in writing. Plus, what do the Punisher and the Foolkiller have in common with the current American presidential candidates? Read on and find out, and make sure to scroll to the bottom for EXCLUSIVE PREVIEW PAGES from the next issue in Hurwitz's arc!
| |  |  WIZARD: So Gregg, how'd you land the Punisher gig?
GREGG HURWITZ: Axel [Alonso] and I were sort of in touch. He'd read some of my Tim Rackley novels, which are vigilante thrillers, and called me to sort of say: "Let's work something out. Are you interested in writing for Marvel?" And we kind of went through what was available. He threw out a couple of characters, but I'm less of a spandex-and-flying guy and more of a real world, over-the-top gritty crime—that's the sandbox I play in for the novels. And so we came up with Foolkiller, because I thought that was a character I could really get a handle in.
But when I was first talking to Axel, I said, "Look, one of the comics that has stoked my interest in doing this is the Punisher MAX line." And I didn't even know Axel was the editor! But I said, "There's this guy Garth Ennis, and he's terrific, and this is my favorite comic." And Axel said, "Well funny you should mention that, because that's one of my books and that's what I was brought here to do, and that's precisely the kind of thing we'd want you to do."
So we went off and running with Foolkiller. I think it went pretty well and Alex was pleased with the job I did. And then when Garth decided to leave [Punisher], there was a slot open. Axel called me and said, "Do you want to take the first arc?" I thought about it for maybe 2.5 seconds and said, "Absolutely."
Which other characters did Axel talk to you about?
HURWITZ: You know, I don't even remember. It's probably a lot of the ones you've seen, because there were three or four in the mix for the MAX line and I think he was just matching them up with people. We were kind of open, but he'd zeroed in already on a field so I'm sure it's some of the crew we've seen coming out of MAX.
So, being less of a spandex-and-flying type as you mentioned, does that mean we won't see you tackling the Marvel Universe proper?
HURWITZ: No, it doesn't. I wrote a Wolverine annual, and there's gonna be more like that coming out. I tend to write Logan as a samurai. He has claws, but he could be a guy carrying a big f---ing sword. I don't think you'll see me writing S.H.I.E.L.D. stuff or anything like that, but there's different superheroes I find more compelling that I could frame in a story that exists on its own in its own type of world, where everything around it is normal and then the character is dropped into it. I don't think you'll see me getting into lots of superheroes interacting with each other. But stories that are more confined, the way I've played with Wolverine, you might see.
Which superheroes would fit that bill for you?
HURWITZ: I like the ones that are more classic and archetypal. I love reading Spider-Man, but I think what might be a better match for my temperament and asthetic would be Bruce Banner. There's just something so Jungian in the basis of that character. It's just so instantly relatable. Someone who is partially fearful of himself and what his temper can do. Wolverine's another one I can do. Axel's got a pretty good read on me, we work together pretty closely, and I think he tends to know when he calls me up with an idea of what's gonna work and what isn't. Y'know, he called me up one time for Daredevil and that's probably not the best choice for me. A lot of times I'll bring something to him and say, "Hey, here's this notion I have." He'll be looking for something for a different character, but I've got something out of left field. If that flies and sticks, then we're off to the races.
Just for the record, if you ever write a Hulk MAX series, I will read the hell out of it.
HURWITZ: [Laughs] Yeah? Okay!
What do you love most about writing Frank Castle?
HURWITZ: I think what's so great about him is that there's this really clear motivation that never has to be discussed or philosophized. It's an extremely clear and sparse narrative that makes immediate sense. The other thing that's so compelling is that he's utterly unapologetic. There's not a lot of the tussling of issues in right versus wrong. You'll see in next month's Foolkiller when he teams up with Frank. The Foolkiller is posing things and has this whole artistic, educational bent to his work. And Frank? He's just out to f---ing kill people.
Yeah, there's nothing theatrical about it for Frank.
HURWITZ: There's nothing theatrical about it, but there's this sort of magnificence of him being this unleashed force of nature. The other thing for me that's really compelling is that there's so much emotion contained in his origin story, for lack of a better word, and you can never go at it or him head on. You have to get to the emotion and what drives him from angles. In a lot of ways he's like this dark, shadowed character. You can't hit him head on. You have to get to the emotion in a story and you have to get to his motivation and drive and thoughts from totally tangential angles, and that poses a really big challenge when you're trying to come up with something that's gonna hook him and make him compelling. He's never going to talk about how he's sad. It doesn't work that way. It's a weird thing where the form is more constrained in a way, because it's Frank Castle, but it also heightens your creativity when you're attacking it because you have to do this obliquely. | |  Which is interesting, because you start this arc, "Girls in White Dresses," on the 30th anniversary of Frank's family getting shot up. Is that going to be kind of a thematic, emotional anchor throughout these next issues?
HURWITZ: One is always faced with a challenge when you're attacking a beloved character in an arc—and by attacking, I mean rolling up your sleeves and mucking around in the clay. There's a particular challenge that I was facing coming in after Garth had this no-less-than legendary run. I wanted to do something that was different and found Frank in a different place or frame of mind without making it cheesy, for lack of a better word. You don't want to do anything that's a break with character.
I thought that having it on the anniversary would have him more reflective. He's got a lot of the war [on crime] to look back on at this point. And so I wanted to set it up in a way that I think this is the type of story he's sucked into, that will involve him more emotionally even as he's not showing emotion that clearly. I think in some ways that the five issue arc isn't a meditation on the anniversary, but what happens in the actual plot. Then it just becomes a meditation, the writer wanting to deal with something emotionally, and that's not the point. But it will dovetail into what this war is and how it effects him and what he has to deal with in the course of it. It actually boils down into the plot. He's trying to figure out a different way of getting a handle on what happened [to his family] in Central Park. This plot is one of the agencies of that.
Do you think that Frank would've agreed to help out this poor guy from Tierra Rota if he wasn't feeling so sentimental about his own family tragedy?
HURWITZ: Probably not. [Pauses] And my only correction on that is I'd say he's being reflective more than sentimental, as per our earlier conversation. Sentimental isn't a word that attaches to Frank well. Most of the time, he's just this force. The anniversary has caught him in a way in that he's looking back and reflecting on how far he's traveled. He's reflecting on the distance between Central Park and now, and what that's meant.
How'd you come up with the plot for the arc?
HURWITZ: I have no idea! Literally, as soon as Axel called, it was like it was there all along and I didn't know or register it. As soon as he called, I was like, "Here's the idea." It just spilled out. It was exactly the one I wanted to do.
Are you happy with series artist Laurence Campbell's work on the book?
HURWITZ: I'm absolutely thrilled. The thing that's really nice with the MAX line and the stuff I write—
You know, I'm not a lifetime comics writer. I come in from a different medium and that has disadvantages but has its advantages also. Axel has paired me with guys like Lan Medina, Marcel Frusin, Laurence Campbell... Axel gets me these guys who are real artists. I mean, Laurence Campbell! Some of these pages just look like gallery work! He's absolutely extraordinary.
There's such an amazing range of artists in the comics community, and in some ways in popular culture, that's undervalued. That's a conversation you've had a million times and we could have it a million more. People don't appreciate the level of artists that some of these guys are. The way that Campbell came and brought this particular aesthetic to the whole thing, it just blew me away.
The other thing that's weird, Campbell's art is very different from the way I envisioned the story. Whereas with Lan, it was incredible—he was on the top of his game in that first Foolkiller arc and it was just how I imagined it. This one, I'm thrilled with for a different reason. I feel like Campbell swept in and made me look much better than I really am. He's got a real opinionated style, where people are gonna get it or they're not. I think most people are getting it.
You said yourself that Ennis' Punisher is your favorite comic, so how intimidating has it been to step into his shoes?
HURWITZ: Fortunately, [my arc so far] feels like it's been fairly well received. Part of it is, when you go into something, you gotta tackle the things you love. You can't believe the good press, because then you have to believe the bad press. If you take that approach—and I've written novels for a while now, eight books out—and when it's review season, you realize that you can't base your mood or self-esteem around reviews. I've seen people get it right, get it wrong, and I don't ever wanna believe the good press because then I'd have to believe the bad press. I'd rather believe neither and just do this because I love it and hope people respond to it. I love the interaction with the fans and the readers though. That's a really cool level for me. I hear from a lot of people through my Web site, MySpace, Facebook—that's a really cool thing when I'm talking to readers who actually sort of dug in.
What's weird about taking over from Garth is that his Punisher is by far and away my favorite comic that's ever been written. So it's a bittersweet thing—on the one hand, it's like a childhood dream because Punisher is my favorite character—this is it! And yet, at the same time, by me getting to fulfill this dream, I don't get to read my favorite comic anymore cause I'm writing it! | |  I'll tell you a funny story. When I was at Comic-Con, there was a big foosball table set up at this booth. I'm a big foosball player, so of course I got to stop and play. I'm pretty solid, but I wouldn't say spectacular. This guy at the booth comes over and we play, and he beats me pretty handily. I'm walking away, and I get like a lightbulb going off in my head. I turn around and walk up to this guy I was playing and say, "Are you Phil?" He goes, "Yeah..." And I say, "You're the guy who taught me how to play foosball and first got me into comic books." He was literally from the comic book store in Northern California when I was in seventh grade! I'd been playing with him and after he spanked me I was thinking, "Man this guy's good..." Well, no sh--! He's the guy who taught me to play!
So we were standing there and I told him, "You said to me [way back], 'Hey, there's this new unlimited starting with a character called Punisher. You gotta check out this character cause you're gonna love him.'" And so I told him, "I'm here now writing Punisher for Marvel. I'm here because of you." It was one of those bizarre things. Literally, that's how far back [my fandom] goes. This goes back to seventh grade. I've loved this character in every phase. Loved that first limited, loved the unlimited. There was a while where I was away from the book, and I picked up on Ennis and was like "Oh my lord." Reading Ennis then, as a novelist and screenwriter, there was just so much there in the way he's reimagined it.
Wow. Well considering how long you've been a Punisher fan, Frank Castle must've somehow inspired your crime writing.
HURWITZ: Oh yeah. No question. I was doing interviews for The Crime Writer and people were saying, "Oh, who are your favorite heroes from fiction?" I always listed Frank Castle.
Actually, my Tim Rackley novels are all a reflection on vigilantism. The first book, The Kill Clause, opens with Tim Rackley getting the news that his seven-year-old daughter has been brutally killed. There were four of these books, each of which has a commentary on vigilante justice and how it functions. It's a fascination that was inspired much more by Frank Castle than, say, a Charles Bronson "Death Wish" movie. Frank's been a huge influence on me.
Shifting gears a bit, you've got the new Foolkiller series going on, and Frank's about to pop his head in there. The question on everyone's mind: who'd win in a fight, the Punisher or the Foolkiller?
HURWITZ: [Laughs] I can't answer that!
Ooh, it's a spoiler!
HURWITZ: [Laughs] It is a spoiler. You know, it's tough. These are two characters I've written, so it depends. I can't answer it. But you'll see 'em fighting pretty good [in issue #3 on stands September 17]. You know, it depends on their mood and it depends on the weapons. See, Mike Trace is younger than Frank, he's more agile. But Frank's got many more years of killing people under his belt. It's sort of youth and talent versus experience.
Sounds a bit like today's political climate...
HURWITZ: [Laughs] Exactly, exactly. We'll just have to see who Frank chooses as his Vice President. That'll be next week.
For anyone enjoying your Foolkiller and Punisher runs, which of your novels would you recommend to them if they wanted to read more of your work?
HURWITZ: I'd say two. One is The Crime Writer. It's about a crime writer waking up in a situation that feels like one of his own books. His only way to figure it out is to use his skills as a writer. Like me, he knows Navy SEALs, detectives and criminalists. He has to use his own resources and actually write the story that we're reading, which becomes the investigation. So there's an element to it playing with narrative and the conventions of crime fiction. It's a very dirty, modern noir, sort of LA story. That's one that a lot of the comic readers have responded to.
After that, The Kill Clause, which is the first Tim Rackley book that I described a bit before, is another one that's a good place to start. It's the beginning of a series and has a real hard vigilante bent. It plays in that arena, which is the essential arena of comics I think. People like that book as a starting point, and then there's three more books after.
Sounds good! Well Gregg, moving forward, is there anything you can tease about the rest of your Punisher arc?
HURWITZ: An arch-nemesis from the past is going to emerge. We're going to see a MAX version of someone who is pretty shocking to see. And at the end of the next issue, we're going to see Frank confronting a situation that he's never had to confront before. It's a very intensely emotional situation for him that really plugs into his past and the 30 year anniversary, the grief that he's been grappling with. That's all gonna come to a head at the end of the next issue.
Last question... if you could exact Frank Castle-like punishment on anyone, anyone at all, who would it be and why?
HURWITZ: Oh man! [Pauses] Well, I might have to go with the obvious and say Osama bin Laden. Y'know? It's just... it's just gotta be done!
Make sure to check out Punisher #62 and Foolkiller: White Angels #3 on stands September 17! And click it here to see our Thursday Morning Quarterback review of Hurwitz's first Punisher issue!
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